Ferrona Lie: Co-Founder of Near

Ferrona Lie is a fourth generation Chinese Indonesian. Growing up in Indonesia, she felt like she didn’t fit in with other Chinese Indonesians, due to her tanned skin and southeast Asian features. But she also felt different from other Indonesians, due to historical discrimination and violence between the different ethnic groups. 

Ferrona started Near after she realized she’ll be almost ten thousand miles away from her family (with her in America and her parents in Indonesia) for the foreseeable future. Near provides tech support that families trust. Near’s mission is to help everyone navigate ever-changing technology to have enjoyable aging-at-home experiences and stay connected with loved ones.  

I spoke with Ferrona about her experiences standing out as a Chinese Indonesian, how aspects of her Asian culture (e.g., attitudes toward older adults and aging) influenced her to start Near, and how she feels about being both an immigrant founder and a female founder.

Photo courtesy of Ferrona Lie

Rebecca: Can you start by telling me about your upbringing in Indonesia? 

Ferrona: My great-grandparents immigrated from China to Indonesia, which makes me a fourth generation Chinese Indonesian. This is pretty common for people in my generation, and I was always around a lot of other Chinese Indonesians. I grew up in a traditional Chinese Indonesian household and went to Catholic school from kindergarten until the end of high school. 

There has always been segregation between Chinese Indonesians and Indonesians for many reasons, with socioeconomic status being one of the biggest contributing factors. I recently searched about this on the internet and learned that Chinese discrimination is so rooted in the culture. The earliest recorded violence occurred in the 1700s. 

When I was growing up, there were a lot of microaggressions around this divide. This is very rude, but Chinese Indonesians have names for Indonesians such as “Tiko,” which means pig. There’s also a term for people who are Chinese Indonesian, but don’t look Chinese Indonesian. The word is Chitato (China Tampang Tiko -- it’s a play of a local potato chip brand) and means Tiko-faced Chinese. It doesn’t translate very well. I had that figuratively tattooed on my back, because Chinese Indonesians frequently assume I’m not Chinese Indonesian. People expect Chinese Indonesians to look like Mulan with straight hair and pale skin. I look more southeast Asian, like Raya from Raya and the Last Dragon. I was an active person, so I spent a lot of time outside and am very tan. This is against Chinese beauty standards and didn’t help when I was growing up. Because of this, I’ve struggled with being Chinese Indonesian, and I don’t think I’ve ever felt like I truly belonged anywhere. 

What’s interesting is that non-Chinese Indonesians knew that I was Chinese Indonesian, so they didn’t see me as one of them either. I grew up in this in between, and I ended up spending a lot of my childhood learning how to be a chameleon. When I hang out with my Chinese Indonesian friends, I embrace Chinese things. When I hang out with my non-Chinese Indonesian friends, I do the opposite.

When I went to college at the University of Illinois, there was a profound moment where this divide started to disintegrate for me. I was waiting for a bus when a Chinese couple came up to me and started speaking in Mandarin. Most Chinese Indonesians in my generation don’t speak Mandarin, and if they do, it’s often a dialect instead of the Mandarin spoken in China. It’s interesting that this couple from Mainland China thought that I was Chinese after I had spent 18 years thinking I should be more Chinese or embrace that identity more

Rebecca: Does your family celebrate Chinese traditions and holidays? 

Ferrona: Yeah, Chinese New Year is a national holiday, so we always celebrate it. There are a few other Chinese traditions we’ll practice such as Chinese tea ceremonies at weddings and eating noodles for birthdays. 

But Chinese-related culture and religion were actually banned in Indonesia from 1967-1998. During that period of time, the government almost tried to erase Chinese culture, Chinese names, Chinese celebrations, etc. from the country. Many people ended up adopting other religions. My family used to practice Confucianism, but after that was banned, they started practicing Catholicism. A lot of Chinese Indonesians, including my family, also had to either change their last names into an Indonesian-sounding name or take up a new name entirely. For the longest time, I didn’t have a last name, and I was only given one before I went to the US in high school.

Rebecca: How did you decide to come to the States for college? 

Ferrona: My parents wanted me to go overseas for college. In Indonesia, there are still universities that discriminate against Chinese Indonesians and against women. In 2019, Indonesia was ranked as the second most dangerous place for women in Asia Pacific. 

It’s pretty common for Indonesians to go to school in Australia, because it’s relatively close. We didn’t consider the US initially, because my parents wanted to keep us closer if possible. They preferred places like Singapore, Australia, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. My sister had actually spent a year in Taiwan studying Mandarin. But she decided to go to the US for college and because I’m younger, it was an easy choice for me to follow her there. 

Rebecca: How did your initial experiences in the States compare to any preconceived notions you might have held?  

Ferrona: I got most of my American references from Disney Channel; when people ask how I learned English, I tell them I grew up with Hannah Montana. I used to pride myself on my good English, and I was confident that I could keep up with other students. But I realized that Americans mumble a lot and talk so quickly, so initially a lot of what people said would go over my head. 

My sister was also at U of I, so I was a little spoiled in that I sort of had a protector there. The first time I had to branch out of my Indonesian bubble in the States was when I did my MSMS at Northwestern, five years after I moved here. In hindsight, I understand why a lot of international students, including myself, just hang out with their own ethnic group. At U of I, the sheer size of the school was overwhelming. I went from a high school with 100 students in each class to a school with 34,000 undergraduates. It’s comforting to latch onto what you know.

Rebecca: Now that you’ve spent quite a few years in America, do you feel yourself becoming more American? Do you mumble now too? 

Ferrona: Yes, I actually do! My parents understand English, but sometimes when they hear me talk to my fiancé, they’ll tell me afterward that they have no idea what I was saying. They might not understand some of the words I use, because in Indonesia we learned British English instead of American English. 

I feel like I’m becoming more American, because although I’ve returned to Indonesia for holidays and vacations, I usually don’t stay for long periods of time. I also had most of my professional experiences and workplace training in the US. I did an internship at a local bank in Indonesia once, and I stood out. Communication in the US is more direct than it is in many Asian countries. People get straight to the point here, whereas in Asia people talk in circles more. Things like that started to get to me, and a lot of Indonesians found me too direct. In situations like that, I feel more like an American. 

Rebecca: How do you feel about this shift of being more American? 

Ferrona: I’m still TBD on this. I was planning to go back to Indonesia for good after I finished my MBA, but then I met my fiancé, who’s in academia. It’d be career suicide for him to move to Indonesia, so my current plan is to stay in the US. I’m still adjusting to that fact, because I had never planned to stay here long-term and be a full-on American. It’s interesting because after I started dating my fiancé, who’s a white American from Texas, I’ve better appreciated and developed a desire to embrace my Asian culture more. There are so many layers in my identity: there’s the Chinese part, the Indonesian part, and the Asian part. I find myself trying to hold onto those parts as much as I can now. 

Rebecca: I’d love to pivot and talk about your company, Near, which provides technology support for older adults. How did you develop this interest around working with older adults?  

Ferrona: Even before I started my MBA at Kellogg, I knew I wanted to work on something for older adults. My grandmother lives in Indonesia, and culture demanded that once she reached a certain age, she should move in with one of her children. That was one of my first experiences seeing how detrimental it can be when culture is forced upon someone. My grandmother had no desire to move out, but she acquiesced because of the cultural pressure. She has five children, including my dad. My family couldn’t decide which house she should live in, so she would rotate between all five houses. This did not make sense to me. But this was 2008 in Indonesia and all five of the siblings are men, so they didn’t listen to my grandmother or any other woman’s opinion on this. My grandmother had started showing symptoms of dementia, and after having to rotate houses, her mental decline accelerated. Within two years, she was unable to remember anyone and she had no social circle. It was apparent that having her rotate homes had been a mistake. 

My sister and I have promised our parents that we’ll never force them to move out of their house if they don’t want to. Thinking about my grandmother’s experience and my parents is what initially motivated me to focus on older adults. There are some cultural factors that motivated me to start Near. In Indonesia, if my parents were in a retirement community, everyone would think that that’s terrible and that my sister and I don’t care about our parents. Retirement homes aren’t a thing, irrespective of whether my parents or I had made that decision.

The idea for Near started to materialize after I got engaged and realized that I’m going to be very far from my parents for the foreseeable future. That’s where the name came from, because my overarching idea is to help families feel close to one another regardless of where they physically are. We always knew that technology would be the conduit in facilitating these relationships. Initially we thought technology would be the panacea, so we bought a lot of tools to try to equip homes in Evanston for our beta test. But all the families cancelled; people would say their grandmother wasn’t interested or that their grandfather was afraid of technology. We realized that a lot of older adults aren’t yet comfortable with technology, so we decided to pivot and focus on providing tech support for older adults instead.

Rebecca: I love that mission, and I can definitely relate to wanting to feel closer to your family! My dad lives in the Midwest, but my mom and the rest of my extended family lives in Taiwan so we’re also pretty distributed. I think a lot of young people focus on building apps for other young people, so it’s great that you’re working on something for older adults instead!

Ferrona: Thank you! I’ve had a lot of Asian Americans say they can immediately relate, especially when they have family overseas and roots outside of this country. 

Rebecca: What are some lessons you’ve learned while working on Near? 

Ferrona: You always see statistics about how difficult it is to be a female founder, especially when you’re fundraising. I didn’t fully appreciate that until I started doing this full time. You have to almost suspend belief and ignore those statistics, because the odds of success are very low for female founders. Being an immigrant doesn't make things easier, either! There's always that risk of having to leave the country if the visa situation doesn't work out.

My startup journey has been a little lonely, because I haven’t seen that many immigrants starting startups here. A lot of my Indonesian friends will return home after college and they might start a venture there. Hopefully my story encourages other immigrants to start ventures in the States as well. I understand that it is a little difficult though, especially when it comes to visa stuff. I’m lucky to have resources like Kellogg and Galvanizer. 

When I was at Kellogg, it felt like there was a 50/50 split between female and male entrepreneurs. But as soon as I graduated, the majority of the female entrepreneurs I knew decided to pursue something else. 

Rebecca: Do you have any thoughts on why that is, maybe from talking to your female classmates? 

Ferrona: It seems like my female classmates were more likely to pursue something other than entrepreneurship after graduating if they were engaged or married. There’s the family-planning part of it; it’s a little heartbreaking to me that because we’re the ones who get pregnant in the relationship, that has to be taken into account. I have a friend who was pregnant in school, and it was very tough for her to balance her pregnancy with being an entrepreneur.  

In one of my classes, a woman asked the professor and the rest of the class if we had any relationship advice, because she and her fiancé are both entrepreneurs. Surprisingly, she was the only person in the room in that situation. Most people had significant others in more stable professions like academia (in my case) or law. I feel like in the case where two entrepreneurs are a couple, the woman feels more pressure to give that up. 

Rebecca: What are some of your short-term and longer term goals for Near?

Ferrona: In the short term, I want to make sure our business is scalable. Right now, the high touch human support aspect is very important to our clients, but it causes a lot of friction with investors. They want us to make Near more scalable. I completely agree, but I want to do it in a way that’s mindful and doesn’t just throw technology into the equation without thinking. 

In the long term, I’d love to be able to provide care for my parents wherever I might be. It would be a nightmare for them if I moved back to Indonesia just to care for them. They would feel like a burden, which wouldn’t make them happy. I don’t know how that will look, maybe that means having monitoring devices in the home or something else, but that’s the future I want to create.